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Full Transcript of Elizabeth Interview

Recorded in person in New York City
October 5, 2009
Jim Hopkinson, Wired’s Marketing Guy
Elizabeth King, Outsmarting the SAT Author


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Hi, this is Jim Hopkinson, Wired’s Marketing Guy, bringing you the marketing trends that matter. Welcome.

My guest today is Elizabeth King, author of, “Outsmarting the SAT.” We cover some fascinating stuff, whether you took the SAT back in the 90s, or you’re taking it next week.

Jim Hopkinson: Hi everyone, my guest today is Elizabeth King, an expert on the SAT and ACT Test, which means in Boston terms, “She is wicked, wicked, smaht.” Elizabeth tutors high school students preparing to take these tests; she helps them with their college applications materials, and, most importantly, she has written a groundbreaking book called, “Outsmarting the SAT.”

Welcome, Elizabeth.

Elizabeth King: Hi, Jim thanks for having me.

JH: OK. So, the SATs, this is a really stressful subject. So, say that you’re a 17 year old high school student, there’s all this pressure on this one test to get into the school you want to, in order to graduate, and get the job you wanted. It’s kind of a really stressful couple of hours, right?

EK: I would say so.

JH: So, let’s start at the beginning.  How did you get into this, and what were you doing before you became an SAT Guru?

EK: So, the fact of the matter is that it was a complete accident. Like most people, I never really intended to become an SAT expert; it’s not what I dreamed about growing up to be when I was six years old. I actually started doing what I did dream about when I was six years old, which was being an actress, which doesn’t pay any money.

So, I also happened to just be super good at standardized testing, so I decided, “Well, I should become a tutor.” So, I got a job in a local tutoring agency where I was living at the time, in Boca Raton, and that was about seven years ago. Interestingly enough,

though, I’m pretty stubborn, and really didn’t want to be trained by anyone, and so my pigheadedness led to me sort of developing my own way of tackling the test, and learning to communicate with students the way that I happen to be good at standardized testing.

JH: Alright, so you did well on your test; you’re tutoring these kids on how to take the test, and how did it go from there to the book?

EK: I basically got hired to become a tutor, initially, simply because of the test that I took in high school, and then showing some sample work, right, so, I know how to solve the problems on this test. What was interesting is that because I hadn’t had any prep myself, I really had no idea how to go about doing it. Ultimately, maybe five years into it, I got to the point where I was always writing the same notes for students over and over and over, and that was aggravating, and so, for my own convenience, I stating writing out in a workbook.

And, then it hit me, “Wow. If I’m tutoring all of these important people, and I’m flying around the country, and I’m sitting here and trying to write a workbook, maybe there are more people that can benefit from this than just my students.” And, so, long story short, “Outsmarting the SAT” was born.

JH: OK, if you’re listening to this podcast, then, and say you have a kid that’s going into college, what do you recommend? Because there are a lot of options out there – there’s the Kaplan Test, there’s the Princeton Review, is it a book, do you get a tutor, is it really worth it, can you really increase your score?

EK: This is a really hot topic right now, actually, that the National Association of College Admissions Counselors did a big study summer, and it as all over the Wall Street Journal, and the New York Times, and the study said that working with these really big prep companies; and, the didn’t name any of them, but, we sort of all know who they are, and who they’re talking about; so, they mentioned that these really big companies have these $1000 courses, or whatever, and the average student only walks out of those courses having increased their score by about 30 points.

Now, what’s interesting about that is that those 30 points, if you’re trying to get into Princeton, it’s a difference between the 700 and 730, that might actually do you some good. If, you’re not shooting for that, those 30 points might actually not matter at all. And that’s a really expensive 30 points. So, since not everybody has access to me, and because I don’t have lots and lots of hours in the day to be helping every kid in America, I sort of actually dared to, ‘give away the farm’ [chuckles], in Outsmarting, and, so, I would say that about 96% of everything and anything that I’ve ever said in the tutoring profession is written down in “Outsmarting.”

JH: And the stats are proving it out. We’re going to help Elizabeth get to the top of the charts in Amazon. Right now, her book, “Outsmarting the SAT,” is top 10 in SAT books, it’s number 2291, as of this recording, overall, out of all of Amazon, like hundreds of thousands, there was formally up 250 thousand [chuckle] when it debuted.

EK: Yes.

JH: But, now she’s in the top 1% of all books! So, we’re going to get her into the top 1000. So, the way you get to the book, go to elizabethonline.com, and then you can buy the book, it’ll take you to Amazon, and we’re going to get you up the charts. Let’s talk about the test itself. I’m trying to remember when I took it… do you guess, do you eliminate answers, what kind of techniques should people be using?

EK: OK, this is the part where I start sounding like the ‘hard ass’ tutor than I am. When the large test companies came out with a lot of their strategies, about, I don’t know, 25, 30 years ago, they were really, really focused on guessing strategies. And, I think in a lot of ways that’s theoretically great, right? Because they were trying to help people that were scoring in the top, sort of guess their way to a couple extra points, which might actually made changes for them.

What it’s turned into is a ‘culture of fear’ that surrounds the SAT and the ACT. And, I’m 100% against it; that’s because when I took the test, I didn’t prep, I had no idea what was on it, I had a really solid education, and, that’s how I got a really high score. That’s a fact that the College Board will get behind, and while we might think of them as the enemy because they’re the folks behind the SAT, the fact of the matter is that it’s their test, and they know what it’s all about. And, the fact is that if you’re prepared educationally, with sound mathematics, you have sound vocabulary, and you know your grammar rules, then you’re going to do well on the test. So, as a tutor, I’m all about the educational priority, and learning as much as you can so you can take the new things that you’ve learned and go to college with them.

JH: Right! Are kids spoiled these days? Are they looking for the easy way out, and, “I’ll just do this, and then I’ll get an easy score, and I’ll be fine.”

EK: I really think that the truth is that it is not even about being spoiled, I think it’s about being terrified. I think that we talk about this so much, and that these concepts of guessing, and what are we going to do, and, oh, my God, it’s such a terrifying test that they don’t even think like, “Really, you can just teach me the math, and then I can go do that math problem, and I can get the point? And really, you’re going to have to teach me how to guess, how am I ever going to get to the right answer?” The truth is really like, “No, I can just show you the algebra, and then you’ll know how to do the problem.”

JH: You can actually learn, and it’ll be a rewarding experience?

EK: Yeah, you can learn; it’s going to be great, and then you’ll go to college and you’ll know something. It’s going to be fantastic!

JH: So, how do you approach it, do you use the process of elimination, how do the questions work like that?

EK: It really depends. If it’s math, I honestly expect you to be able to solve every single problem on the test. And, I have students right now that have done that; I have a student that I’ve been working with for about a year, and when we met, she was scoring in the mid-400s, and now she scores in the mid-700s. Because, I just taught her the math, and that’s all it’s about.

The vocabulary, the thing with the reading comprehension is that there’s a lot of vocabulary in there; so, if you don’t have a solid vocabulary background, you’re going to have to get on that and spend some time learning. The grammar is grammar, you need to know grammar, work on it, learn it!

JH: What are some tutoring horror stories that you have?

EK: I would say, actually, that most of them stem from this idea that I’m harping about of guessing, is that I have a lot of parents that are like, “Why can’t you give Susie everything she needs to know in order to outsmart this test in the next three hours? And, can you just give her all of these strategies for things that she needs to know, and why do you need to come back here every week, and why is she doing all of this homework, and I think she’s just afraid of the test?” And like, “No, we need to sit down and we need to learn everything here.” So, it’s usually just wrestling with parents and changing their perception of this test, because they’re products of the big test companies.

JH: Is it easier to improve someone’s score in English, or in math?

EK: It depends on who they are. I find the math really easy to make pop, and find the grammar, the writing section easy to make pop. Really, the reading is sort of a 50-50 thing – half of it is how you approach it in your understanding, the reading comprehension section, and how it works; and then the other half is so much about vocabulary. If you have a weak vocabulary, then, that’s going to work against you on the test.

JH: How can someone improve their vocabulary? Is it just repetition and studying a dictionary, or are there other tricks that you do?

EK: Well, it’s funny that you should ask that. I have a way that I teach vocabulary that students use to relate the words that they know to words that they’re learning, sort of create what I call these ‘language webs’, and we’re actually working on a book about that right now. So, hopefully, you’ll see that on shelves in the next year or two, but the truth is, “Parents, you should be teaching your children vocabulary words when they’re six, seven, and eight years old.” I think that one of the big problems is people being afraid vocabulary words, and think like, “Oh, that’s a big hard word.” And, really, if it’s a word that you learned when you’re eight years old, you’re not really inclined to think that it’s difficult, and that ultimately pans out on the SAT and makes it easier for you.

H: Now, how else are you different from your competitors, I know you took more of a personal approach to the book, you actually wrote out all like the graphs that you drew, the parallelograms, and the arrows, so that was a good personal touch [laughter], what else do you do that’s different?

EK: I think it’s all bout being empowering. I’ve spent so many hours actually tutoring — and that’s something that’s also different about the materials that I’ve supplied, rather than some of these bigger companies — is all I do, all day long, honest to God, 7 days a week, is hang out with teenagers. And I know how they learn, and I know how they think, and I know how they react to questions, and different problem styles, and I know the way that everybody’s geometry teacher screwed up and taught them this or that in a way that really doesn’t necessarily jive with the SAT. And so for me, it’s really what you feel in the book is that I’m actually tutoring, it’s not a book about the SAT, and so in that way it’s really didactic.

JH: Didactic – that’s a great vocabulary word, right there.

EK: […] throw that one in there [laughing].

JH: For the Hopkinson Report listeners, let’s just explain just didactic means. [Laughter]

EK: I would like to think that your listeners know, but didactic means ‘intended to teach.’

JH: [Laughs] so, the students are obviously learning, what about some other testimonials of people that are using your book?

EK: It’s so exciting. I have to tell you. There’s a whole culture of nerds out there – people that are teaching people the SAT, and the most amazing thing happened within a week of the book coming out back when it was around number 250,000 on Amazon, incredibly, I got this letter from a teacher in Mississippi, he said that every year he reads every single SAT prep book that comes out.

JH: Now, that’s an exciting guy. That’s a guy you want to be hanging out with.

EK: He is so wonderful; he’s great, he’s great. The reason that he does this is because he’s in a small town in Mississippi, and so, in terms of scholarships, his students need to get national merit; they need to have PSAT scores that are outstanding, and SAT scores that are great that they can get into college and their parents can afford to send them.

So, in a lot of ways, this is like a major labor of love for him. So, he goes to the bookstore every year and reads all of these SAT books which kind of makes me want to poke my eyes out thinking about doing it, but he’s done it. And he wrote me a letter, and he said that of all the books he’s ever read, that this is the one that wishes he could have written himself for his students. And, he’s using it in the classroom with them. And, we’ve actually gotten extraordinary results from them this year, and they keep me updated, and it’s really fun, and they’re doing amazingly better than they ever have.

JH: So, what about the typical question that two trains rushing at each other, and which one hits it first?

EK: Oh, my gosh, the classic question that everybody complains about in their algebra class, and when are they going to collide, and the fact of the matter is that that question is on the SAT; and, it’s actually an Algebra I, Chapter 6 question; I’ve actually done homeschooling and came across it, and I was like, “By God, this is a real problem”, and there’s actually a real way to solve it – just a little chart and it should take any average student about 50 seconds to solve it, but if you really didn’t have an amazing algebra teacher, or if you were in the 9th grade and really didn’t care, you probably don’t know how to do that question anymore. And, they want you to be able to do it if you’re going to go to college; at least for this test, whether or not it measures college preparedness is another thing.

JH: Are there any trick questions that they throw in, are they really mean and add in extra stuff in you don’t need?

EK: No. There’s never a question that has extraneous information on this test. So, in that way it’s really safe, it’s really safe. And for me, students will give me a new problem, put it in front of me, and I’ll just take a stab at it, because I know there’s only so many ways to solve any of these questions, and I’m not afraid of the test. So, I’ll just put something on the paper, and usually, they’ll reward you for being brave enough to try the questions

JH: Be fearless, attack the test!

EK: That’s right, stop being afraid, you don’t have to guess. Just do it!

JH: This is so nerdy; but, I used to do that in college. So many people would be so depressed, like, “Oh my God, I’ve got this huge test, I’m going to fail it; this is horrible.” I would literally get myself get psyched up, like, “Yeah!!! There’s no way I’m failing this test, I’m so pumped up…”, and you just go in with the right attitude.

EK: I am so glad that you said that, and actually…

JH: Do you have a dance that you make them do, or like ‘high fives?’

EK: No, I have no dance. And that’s because I kind of have no sense of humor when it comes to this, I try to make the kids laugh, but, personally, I’m not funny. So, the one thing, though, that I’ve been looking into a lot is this level of anxiety, and, oh my God, have I mentioned this a hundred times, the guessing thing, and, oh my gosh, the test is so scary, it brings such a level of anxiety before students have even attempted the test, that I actually ended up contacting a former Olympian, her name is Barbara Ann Cochran, and she won the Gold Medal in ’72 for downhill; and she is brave and smart and works with teenagers right now, and coaches them, athletically. And she and I have been putting together materials that high schoolers can use to psyche up for the test in the same way you need to psyche up to go downhill.

JH: That’s exactly what I would do. I always played sports.

EK: And, you did better; you did better that everybody else because of it, that’s why.

JH: Although, I had a freak score, my English was exactly the same score as my math; does that mean that I’m half left brain and right brain?

EK: I don’t know what that means except that you got the same score, I don’t actually think that it’s that unusual, especially in the upper echelon, like you’re going to get the same score. What’s funny about it is that you remember your score, and so does everybody else; and every time I meet somebody, like in a cocktail hour, they’re like, “Hi, I’m so and so, and I’m a 1420.” [Laughter] That’s my social life in a nutshell now.

JH: OK, so what we did, Elizabeth brought with her the ‘Official SAT Study Guide’ [laughter], Second Edition, and right now we’re on page 714, and what math section is this, a level what?

EK: Well, the question we’re doing is probably a level 4 or level 5; it’s definitely the most difficult question on the section.

JH: So, the question is, “If A and B are positive integers, and A to the ½ times B to the 1/3 all to the 6th equals 432, what is the value of A times B?” Did I even read the question correctly?

EK: Yes, you did. You could probably say the quantity A to the ½, B to the 1/3rd but, that’s just mincing words.

JH: And the possible answers are, ‘6, 12, 18, 24, or 36.’ So, I needed a little help, I’m a little bit out of practice here, and so Elizabeth helped me get to [More discussion about elements of the problem]

EK: First of all, the way that they make the most difficult on this test more difficult is by layering simple tasks. It’s not necessarily more difficult, like this maybe an Algebra I question, it’s just really ‘souped up.’ So, first they wanted to see if you remembered your exponent rules and you remember to distribute that […], which we already talked about. [More detailed algebra discussion]

Well, there’s nothing like that on your calculator. And every student loves to grab the calculator.

JH: Put it down!

EK: Like it’s the security blanket, and it’s not going to help you here. So, what’s important to understand, and this is where the critical thinking element of this test, this is what I really try to foster with my students is understanding that, “A cubed times B squared really means A x A x A x B x B, equals 432.” And so, in your arsenal of tools in there, the last time that you’ve probably seen strings of numbers put together was in a factor tree. And so, actually, if you make that 432 look like a string of factors, you can actually just sort of piecemeal, put together two numbers that are going to fit into that, and that’s actually what they want you to do on this question.

JH: [Jim solves the math problem] OK, let’s look at an English one. OK, here’s another one – This is a good computer question for our Wired fans, “Some interactive computer games are so elaborately contrived and require such ________ strategies, that only the most _______ player can master them.” And your choices are:

A. Byzantine and adroit

B. Nefarious and conscientious

C. Devious and lackadaisical

D. Onerous and slipshod

E. Predictable and compulsive

So, how does one answer that question? You just have to know, you get lucky. If you know one of them, at least that will help you, right?

EK: If you know one what?

JH: Like, if you say, “Even the most slipshod player”, like that wouldn’t be right, then you know you can eliminate ‘the.’

EK: Right, Right. Usually, most people would recommend that you actually put in your own simple vocabulary word into the blank; you don’t jot down like, “The most skilled player can master them, such incredible strategies.” But, the fact of the matter is that if you don’t know these words, you’re going to have a problem.

JH: If you don’t know ‘nefarious’, you’re in trouble. The correct answer, folks, is ‘Byzantine and adroit’, actually.

Here’s another one where they’re really mean, so, and this is a level 6?

EK: No, it’s a level 5, and it’s in the writing section, it’s grammar.

JH: “To introduce itself to a wider audience, the little known band sold its CD’s cheaply to enthusiastic fans, who in turn, shared the music with friends.”

Now, the Wired reader would read this and say, like, “Talk about file sharing and downloading off Napster”, or something like that. But, the key phrase they’re looking at is, “Sold its CD’s cheaply.” Like they even give you that it’s, CD’s – they’ll give you that. There’s a lot of people have problems, like, “Is it CDs with ‘s, is it CDs plural, with CD with a little s?”, but the questions are:

A. Sold its CD’s cheaply

B. Sold their CD’s cheaply

C. Sold its CD’s at a low price

D. Prices their CD’s low for to sell

E. Will sell its CD’s at a cheap price

Now, isn’t that kind of mean, they’re hitting you with the ‘its’ and ‘their’, but then they’re also talking about the ‘cheaply’ and the ‘low price.’ Isn’t that asking you two questions at once?

EK: Well, Yeah. That’s why it’s a number 4, or level 4 or 5. First of all, not a lot of people are comfortable with the idea that ‘bands’, even though it’s talking about a group of guys, is actually a singular word, right, so, we need to use the ‘its’ there; so you’re gonna want to choose between the ‘its’ and ‘their’ before you even worry about the rest of the sentence. And then, there’s an ongoing problem – this is new. Did you know that they just put the grammar section on this test?

JH: Why isn’t it download MP3s? They’re still on selling CDs. Alright, that aside, what part of it is new?

EK: Well the whole grammar section; the whole grammar and writing section is new; they brought it in in 2005, so, that means when I took it, and when you took it, it wasn’t on there. And the reason that it’s on there now, this is my personal, private argument, is that we watch so much television, and see so many advertisements that include terrible grammar, that students are going to college and aren’t able to write. So, the only way to, actually, check them out and to encourage them to learn is to force them to learn it by having it on both tests.

JH: Now, isn’t it true that students can take the SAT via text message now?

EK: [Laughter] I don’t think the SATs…

JH: Dude, can’t I just take this on the iPhone?

EK: [Laughter] It’s really funny, they actually make you turn in your cell phone when you get to the testing center now. The last time I took the test, I swear to you, they passed around a trash bag, and everybody dropped their cell phone in it, so it was like a grab bag of 30 phones at the end of the test. And everyone came in and found   their phone at the end of it, because they’re really trying to cut back, because people are sort of taking the SAT via text message like you asked.

JH: And, you can text message people for answers, you could take picture phones, and, oh, my God.

EK: Mmhmm.

JH: So, it’s ‘its’ versus ‘their’?

EK: Yeah.

JH: That’s the first part, how do you, what’s the right way to go with that?

EK: Well, a band is a singular group of people, like a committee or a business. So the band sold ‘its’ CDs, we know that, so that’s sort of ‘B’ and ‘D.’

JH: Yeah, ‘Prices their CD’s low for to sell’, I can eliminate that one, for sure. Cheaply, cheap price, or low price?

EK: Well, this is the thing is that ‘cheaply’ ends with an ‘ly”, which is kind of telling us that it is an adverb, so, they’re actually telling us that they’re selling it ‘cheaply’, describing the way or the manner in which they’re selling it. And, it’s not that they’re selling it cheaply, it’s the actual price is low; so, ‘cheaply’ isn’t going to work out here.

JH: ‘so, the answer is ‘C’ – Sells its CD’s at a low price.

EK: We should put these on the web, so the people can try themselves.

JH: Absolutely. OK, here’s another question, this makes me, oh, I’m freaking out, it makes me mad, but want to take it all at the same time. OK, question number 29, “There is probably no story more dramatic than baseball’s great hitter and right fielder, Hank Aaron.” And the things they have underlined, remember this, there is probably no more dramatic that baseball’s, and they throw in the ‘no error’ at the end.

EK: Ha, ha, ha. [Laughter]

JH: How often is it ‘no error’?

EK: Maybe one out of every six or seven questions, it’s pretty frequent, enough to make you afraid of it.

JH: Oh, man, so, here, what are they asking, what’s the guts behind this one?

EK: Well, it’s a comparison question. So, there’s probably no story more dramatic than that of ‘great hitter’, or maybe then this story of a great hitter and right fielder, Hank Aaron, in this sentence, there’s probably no story more dramatic than baseball’s great hitter, is saying that ‘baseball’s great hitter is a story, and that it’s dramatic, which is wrong.

JH: It’s Hank Aaron.

EK: It’s Hank Aaron.

JH: Ahah, so the correct answer is ‘than baseball’s.’

EK: Mmhmm.

JH: I got it, alright, alright.

EK: You’re so into this.

JH: A, here’s another math one – Two sides of a triangle each have length 5. All of the following could be the length of the third side, except:

  1. 1
  2. 3
  3. 4
  4. Square root of 50
  5. 10

The square root of 50, what is that?

EK: I really try hard not to actually analyze why they’ve included the incorrect answers, because then they become a little bit psycho. [Laughter]

JH: But, see that one, now that I look at it, that one’s kind of easy.

EK: It’s totally easy.

JH: It’s a triangle, you have its length is 5, 5 and 1, so it can be a really skinny tall triangle, right? 5, 5, and 3; 5, 5, and 4; and the square root of 50 you can do that in your head; it’s like 7.07, or something, but [laughter and banter]. It was written there.

EK: It was in your head. [More discussion about elements of the question] But, I can’t tell you how many times I’ve sat with students, and I’ve done this thing with my hands where I have to show my hands being different legs of triangles, and then they’re folding out and falling on it, “Oh, no, my triangle collapsed.”

JH: And, then like. “Isosceles.” What are the types of triangles? [Continued discussion of triangle types] What about cosigns and tangents? Are those on there?

EK: It’s not on there. It stops at Algebra II. We can do this, people.

JH: OK, I’m having like major flashbacks, I’m having way too much fun here, I’m having flashbacks, like 2 Pi r, Pi r Squared, is that right? They give you the actual formulas, they tell you these things. But, the key isn’t remembering it; it’s learning it and thinking it, right?

EK: Right. I think, the bottom line, and for me, do I care about the SAT more than anybody else does at a very fundamental level? No, it’s a giant standardized test. Like, I don’t care, but I think what’s really exciting about it, and for me what’s exciting about it, as a person, in terms of the things that I really value, like this test gives you an opportunity to think and to learn, and to apply your knowledge in new ways, and, in a lot of ways, it can be really great and, I guess, empowering and exciting way. Like, you’re all wound up!

JH: I’m wound up!

EK: It can be an inspiring way of applying what you’ve learned. And, the better you are at understanding what you’re doing, not memorizing formulas, not working in your calculator, not doing 10 million flashcards, but, really, the more you’re able to actually understand what you know and use that like as a tool, in the same way that you do as an adult in your life all of the time.

JH: Let me give you an example of that – quick story. My first job was doing tech support. And, so we’d have to train these new people who come in, and you train, and you can train for a week or two, and at some point you just have to get on the phones and start answering a question, and you’re terrified. Does that question, “Yes, I’ve been trying to print, and it won’t work.” And, the first time you get on, you know when they have that phrase that says, “Your call may be monitored for…” That’s what you do – both of you are wearing headsets, both of you have the little microphone, but you’re on mute, and the ‘newbie’ is shaking in his boots answering the question. And, everyone kind of gets the idea.

I remember this one guy, and the person’s like, “Yeah, I’m trying to print my document and it’s not working.” And, he’s like, “Can you hold on a second, ma’am?” And, he puts it on mute, and I say, “Have ’em go into Printer Setup, and see what printer they’re on.” “Ma’am, can you go to File, Print, and go to Printer Setup?” and she say, “OK, I did that.” And, then he, “Can you hold one second?” He mutes, and I would tell him what to say, and he was regurgitating it back, and it was like a step-by-step thing of just repeating versus when people click, they understand it’s not a step-by-step thing, it’s the big picture – it’s what is happening. This person’s printer, the document’s not printing, and what’s the big picture – did it work before, is it a new printer;  what’s the root of the problem, is it the driver, is it the document, is it a corrupt file, and it’s thinking in a big way, and then applying what you know.

EK: Right. And that’s what “Outsmarting the SAT” is specifically designed to teach you to do.

JH: Awesome. Well, with that, we will wrap up. Again, this is absolutely a top 10 book in SATs, and, at least by ranking, of course, it’s the number 1 book that we have.

EK: That’s right.

JH: We’re going to get her into the top 1000, Elizabeth King Coaching, when you go there you can buy the book, it makes a great gift, for people coming and taking, when’s the next SAT test? [Laughter]

EK: There’s one in a week, and then there’s one in November.

JH: There’s one in a week, people. Quit that test, and get the book, you’ve got a week left. [Laughter] What if they’re a real, real jetsetter, and they like, “We have a week; we need to hire the best tutor in Manhattan, in the nation.” You can also get that at elizabethonline[.com], as well, correct?

EK: That’s right. I travel.

JH: Alright. Thank you so much for coming in, I am not going to quite go home and study this, but, I got re-excited and re-energized about this, and so thank you for coming in.

EK: I am so glad, I had a great time. Thanks.

[End of transcript]

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